Discussion:
Ultrasonic piezonuclear reaction of thorium solutions
(too old to reply)
Nick
2010-05-07 06:15:26 UTC
Permalink
Physics Letters A
Volume 373, Issue 22, 11 May 2009, Pages 1956-1958

Piezonuclear decay of thorium

Fabio Cardonea, b, Roberto Mignanib, c, d, , and Andrea Petruccic

aIstituto per lo Studio dei Materiali Nanostrutturati (ISMN–CNR), Via
dei Taurini, 00185 Roma, Italy

bGNFM, Istituto Nazionale di Alta Matematica “F. Severi”, Città
Universitaria, P.le A. Moro 2, 00185 Roma, Italy

cDipartimento di Fisica “E. Amaldi”, Università degli Studi “Roma
Tre”, Via della Vasca Navale 84, 00146 Roma, Italy

dI.N.F.N., Sezione di Roma III, Italy

Received 9 February 2009; accepted 28 March 2009. Communicated by F.
Porcelli. Available online 5 April 2009.

Abstract

We show that cavitation of a solution of thorium-228 in water induces
its transformation at a rate 10^4 times faster than the natural
radioactive decay would do. This result agrees with the alteration of
the secular equilibrium of thorium-234 obtained by a Russian team via
explosion of titanium foils in water and solutions. These evidences
further support some preliminary clues for the possibility of
piezonuclear reactions (namely nuclear reactions induced by pressure
waves) obtained in the last ten years.

///

Also see:




Jan Panteltje
2010-05-07 11:41:23 UTC
Permalink
On a sunny day (Thu, 6 May 2010 23:15:26 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Nick
Post by Nick
Physics Letters A
Volume 373, Issue 22, 11 May 2009, Pages 1956-1958
Piezonuclear decay of thorium
Fabio Cardonea, b, Roberto Mignanib, c, d, , and Andrea Petruccic
aIstituto per lo Studio dei Materiali Nanostrutturati (ISMN–CNR), Via
dei Taurini, 00185 Roma, Italy
bGNFM, Istituto Nazionale di Alta Matematica “F. Severi”, Città
Universitaria, P.le A. Moro 2, 00185 Roma, Italy
cDipartimento di Fisica “E. Amaldi”, Università degli Studi “Roma
Tre”, Via della Vasca Navale 84, 00146 Roma, Italy
dI.N.F.N., Sezione di Roma III, Italy
Received 9 February 2009; accepted 28 March 2009. Communicated by F.
Porcelli. Available online 5 April 2009.
Abstract
We show that cavitation of a solution of thorium-228 in water induces
its transformation at a rate 10^4 times faster than the natural
radioactive decay would do. This result agrees with the alteration of
the secular equilibrium of thorium-234 obtained by a Russian team via
explosion of titanium foils in water and solutions. These evidences
further support some preliminary clues for the possibility of
piezonuclear reactions (namely nuclear reactions induced by pressure
waves) obtained in the last ten years.
///
http://youtu.be/TDSoAryImjU
http://youtu.be/ehOS_o5b_2w
Wow!
And it has always be my suspicion that also simple *friction* between
some materials causes nuclear reactions.
dlzc
2010-05-07 15:08:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick
Physics Letters A
Volume 373, Issue 22, 11 May 2009, Pages 1956-1958
Piezonuclear decay of thorium
Fabio Cardonea, b, Roberto Mignanib, c, d, ,  and
Andrea Petruccic
aIstituto per lo Studio dei Materiali Nanostrutturati
(ISMN–CNR), Via dei Taurini, 00185 Roma, Italy
bGNFM, Istituto Nazionale di Alta Matematica
“F. Severi”, Città Universitaria, P.le A. Moro 2, 00185
Roma, Italy
cDipartimento di Fisica “E. Amaldi”, Università degli
Studi “Roma Tre”, Via della Vasca Navale 84, 00146
Roma, Italy
dI.N.F.N., Sezione di Roma III, Italy
Received 9 February 2009;  accepted 28 March 2009.
 Communicated by F. Porcelli.  Available online 5 April
2009.
Abstract
We show that cavitation of a solution of thorium-228 in
water induces its transformation at a rate 10^4 times
faster than the natural radioactive decay would do. This
result agrees with the alteration of the secular
equilibrium of thorium-234 obtained by a Russian team
via explosion of titanium foils in water and solutions.
These evidences further support some preliminary clues
for the possibility of piezonuclear reactions (namely
nuclear reactions induced by pressure waves) obtained
in the last ten years.
///
http://youtu.be/TDSoAryImjU
http://youtu.be/ehOS_o5b_2w
Also see:
http://arxiv.org/abs/0910.2368
http://arxiv.org/abs/0910.3501
http://arxiv.org/abs/0909.2141
http://arxiv.org/abs/1001.5391
... they considered their result "not positive".

Activation energies as low as they propose, would have left the Earth
with NO thorium, since it has undergone many cataclysms since
formation. Yet we have thorium.

David A. Smith
Mark Thorson
2010-05-07 15:22:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by dlzc
http://arxiv.org/abs/0909.2141
That one is where the train leaves the tracks,
as far as I'm concerned. Maybe I could believe
accelerated decay, but decay without gamma
emission is a bit too much.
dlzc
2010-05-07 20:22:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Thorson
Post by dlzc
http://arxiv.org/abs/0909.2141
That one is where the train leaves the tracks,
as far as I'm concerned.  Maybe I could believe
accelerated decay, but decay without gamma
emission is a bit too much.
Well, if it is mechanically initiated (hah!!!), then maybe the gamma
was directed at the experimenters brain cells, rather than at the
detectors?

David A. Smith
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
2010-05-07 22:24:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by dlzc
Post by Mark Thorson
Post by dlzc
http://arxiv.org/abs/0909.2141
That one is where the train leaves the tracks,
as far as I'm concerned. Maybe I could believe
accelerated decay, but decay without gamma
emission is a bit too much.
Well, if it is mechanically initiated (hah!!!), then maybe the gamma
was directed at the experimenters brain cells, rather than at the
detectors?
David A. Smith
"Smells" like Cold Fusion.
--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show
nuny@bid.nes
2010-05-08 09:44:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
Post by dlzc
Post by Mark Thorson
Post by dlzc
http://arxiv.org/abs/0909.2141
That one is where the train leaves the tracks,
as far as I'm concerned.  Maybe I could believe
accelerated decay, but decay without gamma
emission is a bit too much.
Well, if it is mechanically initiated (hah!!!), then maybe the gamma
was directed at the experimenters brain cells, rather than at the
detectors?
David A. Smith
"Smells" like Cold Fusion.
"...nuclear reactions induced by pressure waves" sounds more like
sonofusion (extrapolation of sonoluminescence):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubble_fusion


Mark L. Fergerson
dlzc
2010-05-08 19:05:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
Post by dlzc
Post by Mark Thorson
Post by dlzc
http://arxiv.org/abs/0909.2141
That one is where the train leaves the tracks,
as far as I'm concerned.  Maybe I could believe
accelerated decay, but decay without gamma
emission is a bit too much.
Well, if it is mechanically initiated (hah!!!), then
maybe the gamma was directed at the
experimenters brain cells, rather than at the
detectors?
"Smells" like Cold Fusion.
  "...nuclear reactions induced by pressure waves"
sounds more like sonofusion (extrapolation of
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubble_fusion
If its thorium, it is presumably "sonofission". Don't know how they
multiple MeV gamma photons that get completely absorbed from
sonoluminescence...

David A. Smith
nuny@bid.nes
2010-05-09 22:54:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by dlzc
Post by Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
Post by dlzc
Post by Mark Thorson
Post by dlzc
http://arxiv.org/abs/0909.2141
That one is where the train leaves the tracks,
as far as I'm concerned.  Maybe I could believe
accelerated decay, but decay without gamma
emission is a bit too much.
Well, if it is mechanically initiated (hah!!!), then
maybe the gamma was directed at the
experimenters brain cells, rather than at the
detectors?
"Smells" like Cold Fusion.
  "...nuclear reactions induced by pressure waves"
sounds more like sonofusion (extrapolation of
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubble_fusion
If its thorium, it is presumably "sonofission".
Picky, picky.
Post by dlzc
Don't know how they
multiple MeV gamma photons that get completely absorbed from
sonoluminescence...
I think you left out a word or three there, but If you're referring
to the claim that transmutation happens without gamma emissions, ISTM
there's three possibilities. Either there's a previously unknown decay
channel that doesn't generate gammas, the gammas are indeed emitted
but are absorbed by the liquid environment, or the authors are full of
crap.


Mark L. Fergerson
Mark Thorson
2010-05-10 01:43:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@bid.nes
I think you left out a word or three there, but If you're referring
to the claim that transmutation happens without gamma emissions, ISTM
there's three possibilities. Either there's a previously unknown decay
channel that doesn't generate gammas, the gammas are indeed emitted
but are absorbed by the liquid environment, or the authors are full of
crap.
With regard to the known decay paths of all radionuclides,
about what % of these of nuclear transmutation reactions
do not emit gamma rays?
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
2010-05-10 02:08:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Thorson
Post by ***@bid.nes
I think you left out a word or three there, but If you're referring
to the claim that transmutation happens without gamma emissions, ISTM
there's three possibilities. Either there's a previously unknown decay
channel that doesn't generate gammas, the gammas are indeed emitted
but are absorbed by the liquid environment, or the authors are full of
crap.
With regard to the known decay paths of all radionuclides,
about what % of these of nuclear transmutation reactions
do not emit gamma rays?
Any possibility of Th fission, given the pressures involved in cavitation?
--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show
Just A Guy
2010-05-13 20:12:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
Post by Mark Thorson
   I think you left out a word or three there, but If you're referring
to the claim that transmutation happens without gamma emissions, ISTM
there's three possibilities. Either there's a previously unknown decay
channel that doesn't generate gammas, the gammas are indeed emitted
but are absorbed by the liquid environment, or the authors are full of
crap.
With regard to the known decay paths of all radionuclides,
about what % of these of nuclear transmutation reactions
do not emit gamma rays?
Any possibility of Th fission, given the pressures involved in cavitation?
--
Dirk
http://www.transcendence.me.uk/- Transcendence UKhttp://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe- Occult Talk Show
From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium-228

"Occasionally it decays by the unusual route of cluster decay,
emitting a
nucleus of oxygen-20."

Cluster decay of Th-228 sounds very similar to fission. However, one
can Google for:

ANOMALIES OF NUCLEAR CRITICALITY, REVISION 6
E. D. Clayton
Edited by
A. W. Prichard, B. M. Durst, D. G. Erickson and R. J. Puigh
February 2010
Pacific Northwest National Laboratory

They says that Th-228 is incapable of either slow or fast neutron
chain reaction. However, it is known that fission can be induced by
high energy processes in practically everything. E.g. in 1934 Leo
Slizard reported neutron emmision from beryllium induced by hard xrays.
Martin Brown
2010-05-10 10:55:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Thorson
Post by ***@bid.nes
I think you left out a word or three there, but If you're referring
to the claim that transmutation happens without gamma emissions, ISTM
there's three possibilities. Either there's a previously unknown decay
channel that doesn't generate gammas, the gammas are indeed emitted
but are absorbed by the liquid environment, or the authors are full of
crap.
With regard to the known decay paths of all radionuclides,
about what % of these of nuclear transmutation reactions
do not emit gamma rays?
Dunno.

Of the so called pure alpha or beta emitters how pure are they really?

Say Po210 (alpha) or Sr90/Y90 (both nominally pure beta though Y90 has a
weak gamma) - you would think that after a quantum tunnelling escape the
nucleus would always have to rearrange itself to reach a new minimum
energy state with the emission of some electromagnetic energy.

However Po210 the alpha production rate according to radioisotope tables
is something like 99.999% with only 1:10^5 causing a gamma emission.

Is this strictly true or does emission of a photon occur at an energy
that is not easily detected?

Turning it round is there something special about nuclear species that
are pure beta or pure alpha emitters.

Regards,
Martin Brown
Martin Brown
2010-05-10 10:43:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Thorson
Post by dlzc
http://arxiv.org/abs/0909.2141
That one is where the train leaves the tracks,
as far as I'm concerned. Maybe I could believe
accelerated decay, but decay without gamma
emission is a bit too much.
It would be a lot easier to believe that cavitation can produce pits in
CR39 detector sheets that could be mistaken for alpha particle tracks.

Regards,
Martin Brown
Just A Guy
2010-05-09 08:24:12 UTC
Permalink
[snippage]
Post by Nick
Abstract
We show that cavitation of a solution of thorium-228 in water induces
its transformation at a rate 10^4 times faster than the natural
radioactive decay would do. [snippage]
Thorium-228 has a half-life of 1.9116 years = 60325508 seconds.

If the authors claim about this short lived isotope is true, ultrasonication
would reduce its half life to 6033 seconds.

The fact that a short lived isotope of thorium was claimed, may have been
missed by responders.

Given the short half life, activation energy for nuclear processes would be
smaller than expected.
Just A Guy
2010-05-09 08:29:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Just A Guy
[snippage]
Post by Nick
Abstract
We show that cavitation of a solution of thorium-228 in water induces
its transformation at a rate 10^4 times faster than the natural
radioactive decay would do. [snippage]
Thorium-228 has a half-life of 1.9116 years = 60325508 seconds.
If the authors claim about this short lived isotope is true,
ultrasonication would reduce its half life to 6033 seconds.
The fact that a short lived isotope of thorium was claimed, may have been
missed by responders.
Given the short half life, activation energy for nuclear processes would
be smaller than expected.
Whoops, there's more, see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium-228

"Occasionally it decays by the unusual route of cluster decay, emitting a
nucleus of oxygen-20."

It is plausible that ultrasonication of Th-228 excites low activation
cluster decay.
Just A Guy
2010-05-09 08:56:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Just A Guy
Post by Just A Guy
Post by Nick
We show that cavitation of a solution of thorium-228 in water induces
its transformation at a rate 10^4 times faster than the natural
radioactive decay would do. [snippage]
Thorium-228 has a half-life of 1.9116 years = 60325508 seconds.
If the authors claim about this short lived isotope is true,
ultrasonication would reduce its half life to 6033 seconds.
The fact that a short lived isotope of thorium was claimed, may have been
missed by responders.
Given the short half life, activation energy for nuclear processes would
be smaller than expected.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium-228
"Occasionally it decays by the unusual route of cluster decay, emitting a
nucleus of oxygen-20."
It is plausible that ultrasonication of Th-228 excites low activation
cluster decay.
This may be a way to accelerate the decay of short lived isotopes. But any
serious work would need to be done by robots. The risks of volcanic
eruptions of highly radioactive solutions are obvious.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
2010-05-09 13:37:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Just A Guy
Post by Just A Guy
[snippage]
Post by Nick
Abstract
We show that cavitation of a solution of thorium-228 in water induces
its transformation at a rate 10^4 times faster than the natural
radioactive decay would do. [snippage]
Thorium-228 has a half-life of 1.9116 years = 60325508 seconds.
If the authors claim about this short lived isotope is true,
ultrasonication would reduce its half life to 6033 seconds.
The fact that a short lived isotope of thorium was claimed, may have been
missed by responders.
Given the short half life, activation energy for nuclear processes would
be smaller than expected.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium-228
"Occasionally it decays by the unusual route of cluster decay, emitting a
nucleus of oxygen-20."
It is plausible that ultrasonication of Th-228 excites low activation
cluster decay.
Depends what is happening in the cavitation bubble.
The temps there are high enough to emit soft x-rays
--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show
dlzc
2010-05-09 19:29:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Just A Guy
Post by Just A Guy
[snippage]
Post by Nick
Abstract
We show that cavitation of a solution of thorium-228
in water induces its transformation at a rate 10^4
times faster than the natural radioactive decay
would do. [snippage]
Thorium-228 has a half-life of 1.9116 years =
60325508 seconds.
If the authors claim about this short lived isotope is true,
ultrasonication would reduce its half life to 6033 seconds.
It isn't true. The signal equals the noise.
Post by Just A Guy
Post by Just A Guy
The fact that a short lived isotope of thorium was
claimed, may have been missed by responders.
Given the short half life, activation energy for nuclear
processes would be smaller than expected.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium-228
"Occasionally it decays by the unusual route of cluster
decay, emitting a nucleus of oxygen-20."
It is plausible that ultrasonication of Th-228 excites
low activation cluster decay.
Then bombarding it with x-rays should elicit decay. Since that
doesn't happen, it is just "cold fission".

David A. Smith
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